Around the horn – the Bezos divorce, religion is “cool” again, Biden’s taxes [PODCAST]

[00:00:00]

Hey, welcome to and around the horn episode of Catholic money mastermind, you can find show notes for this episode and get on our email [email protected]. And please note nothing that we say in this episode should be construed as investment tax or legal advice. And here's the show.

Andy Flattery: [00:00:22]

So welcome to Catholic money mastermind. I'm here today with Michael Acosta out of Charlotte, North Carolina and Deb Meyer out of Fort Myers, Florida. I'm Andy flattery here in Kansas city, Missouri. And we're calling this a, around the horn episode. Guys. I've got a topic I'm going to talk about.

Ilan now being the richest man in the world and how that is interesting because it actually coincides with the idea of divorce and finances. Michael, what do you have?

Michael Acosta: [00:00:54] I'm going to be talking about, is there a double standard and current society around when religion can and [00:01:00] cannot be inclusive of the, you know, the current political sphere and kind of where we're leading?

Andy Flattery: [00:01:04] cool. That's our clickbait right there. And then Deb, do you have a topic?

Deb Meyer: [00:01:09] Yeah. I'd also like to piggyback a little bit off of Michael's topic. But additionally, discuss a little bit about Biden's tax policies. We're actually filming on an iteration day and we know things are official that he's now in office, so that has some pretty big implications for people from a tax perspective.

Andy Flattery: [00:01:27] Awesome Deb. So maybe I'll do this. I'll leave it off. And then we'll get into the kind of meat of it and get into Michael's discussion. And then Deb, you can leave us with some some, some kind of good action takeaways at the end. Does that sound good? So guys, my topic is this. Did you see that Elan is now the wealthiest man in the world, at least on paper. Okay. So my, a couple of takeaways with this and, and one of them is I saw somebody posted on Twitter that Jeff Bezos of [00:02:00] Amazon would actually still be the richest man of the world. If not for the fact that he got divorced, I think it was last year. And so somebody made the joke that on a, on a dab, a divorced adjusted basis, he actually is still in fact, the wealthiest man in the world.

And so I think it's interesting for a number of reasons that the, the biggest one was you know, the elephant in the room that maybe isn't talked about so much in financial planning, at least in polite company, is that You know, a lot of us CFPs, we agonize over things like the, the Roth IRA or the traditional IRA and which one is most appropriate for different situations.

But for a lot of people, the biggest decision that you'll ever make that may affect your finances is in fact who you choose to marry. And if you, if you choose to stay married over the course of a lifetime and the case of, of Bezos, it actually costs him, you know, of course, billions and billions of dollars in the chance to still be up there at the top of the [00:03:00] list as the, as the richest man in the world.

So that's kind of my hot take on Ilan and Bezos. You guys agree or disagree?

Deb Meyer: [00:03:08] I agree with you, Andy. I think it's obviously hard just from an emotional perspective, but the financial cost of divorce can be equally hard. And if you even just think about kids and being raised in, you know, dual parent households they actually fare much better. Socioeconomically down the road as well.

So there's a lot of evidence that goes to support strong marriages and really making whatever investment you need to in your marriage to keep it strong for your long-term health and health in every sense of the word.

Michael Acosta: [00:03:42] Yeah, no, I, I agree with that as well. And if I were to add anything, it would be, you know, also keep in mind the commitments, you know, the giving pledge that, that he had committed to in the amount of. Well, if that he was going to be giving through charitable donations. So if you take that into account, as well as the [00:04:00] actual divorce itself and the settlement, and how big of a gap that created in his wealth, I think you're right.

I think he still would be the richest man in the world or person in the world, at least at this point.

Andy Flattery: [00:04:12] Yeah, I would say we know nothing about that situation. I don't, I don't follow him on Instagram or something like that, but just thought it was a useful kind of story to bring up the broader point. And yeah. You know, I guess what I would say is it's no, of course, guarantee that getting married as some sort of path to, to, to material wealth, but maybe it's a little bit of encouragement to.

Those that you know, Mary married, the right person stayed married over, over the course of a lifetime they're in at least one regard, you have done something with regards to your finances that was smarter than Jeff Bezos, which is not something a lot of us can say. So I just wanted to offer that as a word of encouragement for people that, that are taking that view of marriage.

And, and more importantly, of course, it's It's [00:05:00] just a good, a good Testament to the world that we live in today is that, you know, strong marriages are great examples for us. So that's of course the broader point.

Deb Meyer: [00:05:09] Yeah, I love that point too. And just to expand even further, you know I've done a lot of writing over the years and one of my more recent articles I was talking about just achieving. Natural milestones and the impact that marriage does have on, on that both in my own home, but as I'm seeing it with other couples as well, because it does bring a lot of strength and, and I believe, you know, is most Catholics.

Do that I'm here to help my spouse get to heaven. I'm trying to help him become a better version of himself. And he's doing the same with me. And if you guys can bond on the spiritual level, the financial level, I mean, all of these different types of capital, you really will be wealthy in every sense of the word, regardless of how much money you have in the bank.

The people that do run into issues are ones where their marriages are falling apart [00:06:00] and you know, they go through nasty divorces and it's just, it's. Can be so painful. So I know it's obviously hard to relate to someone like Jeff Bezos, but on a more practical level the more you can pour into your relationship with your spouse, if you are married already the better off you're going to be.

Long-term.

Michael Acosta: [00:06:17] Yeah. And to add to that, you know, the greatest role model that we have within the Catholic faith is going to be, you know, our Holy mother Mary, as well as her husband, Joseph, and the commitment that they had for one another. And, and to your point you know, our, our responsibility and our role as spouses to one another is to help one another become better versions of ourselves to help lead one another.

To have and to pray for one another. And, and they, they are, you know, examples of that. They are a Testament of what that should look like and maintaining the traditional family nucleus, which, you know, is. God's greatest creation. So not, not just on, on paper or when it comes to finances, but in general, by being [00:07:00] able to stay committed to your meals, marriage, and being able to work through the goals that you have personally, professionally and financially, there, there is a ton of wealth that comes along with that.

Not necessarily in the form of paper itself, but spiritual wealth, mental wealth, so on and so forth.

Andy Flattery: [00:07:19] Yeah. How about Beatty? Wealth, Michael? We've got two of those, right.

Michael Acosta: [00:07:23] Absolutely. Absolutely.

Andy Flattery: [00:07:26] Well, awesome. Well, Devin, you should send me the link to that article. I'll make sure that goes in the show notes, but Michael, what's your topic? What do you have for us?

Michael Acosta: [00:07:35] Yeah. So, you know, it's over the course of the last three, four or five months, you know, the election has been kind of the clickbait. It's been the hot topic and there's what I would deem a double standard in society currently as to when it is prudent for religion to be inclusive of the political sphere and when it should not be.

And so through my own personal experiences, I know [00:08:00] that. Back in, you know, October and November leading into the election that it, it was really easy for me to determine who I was going to cast my vote for not based on, you know, personal likeness of an individual, but more so based on the platforms that they stood for, the legislation that, that they were proposing and how that aligned with the catechism and my Catholic faith.

And. You know, and, and professing and sharing some of that, that conviction behind our faith and you know, what it meant to be Catholic and how that ties into the political sphere. A lot of the banter that I hell or the counter arguments was, well, you know, you shouldn't, you should never include religion when you make political decisions.

And so when I, when I sat back and tried to discern that my thought was, so am I supposed to park my moral values at the door? When I go in to cast my vote, And so fast forward now to inauguration day. And as I'm watching, you [00:09:00] know, the inauguration and I'm listening and, you know, various news outlets they're making comments about the dogma within Biden and the fact that he is Catholic and the fact that he carries a rosary in his pocket with him every day, since, you know, for however long and.

That's great. Like I commend him for that. I carry, you know, a battle rosary in my pocket, as well as a reminder that, you know, I am broken and I need to lean on you know, prayer and, and our, and Jesus Christ and our Holy mother, Mary, but it was just very. Very much, a double standard, if that makes sense.

And so I'm curious, is there a double standard in today's society when it comes to when religion can or should not be inclusive with the political sphere?

Andy Flattery: [00:09:49] It's a good point. Just out of curiosity, are you talking about specific things that you've been told or just kind of like the tone. Of of the message on social media and in articles and [00:10:00] things like that, that say basically you can't bring your religion to the polling booth.

Michael Acosta: [00:10:05] I would say it's a mix of what's being shared on social media from, you know, citizens as well as what's being portrayed in the media in general, the mainstream media. I mean, even within the Catholic church, there is some, some form of division. You know, as to what is, and what isn't allowed based on our faith.

But if you, if everyone turns back to the catechism, there is no gray area it's black and white. So, you know, it's it, that's where we're, I feel like this, this double standard lies is that though. And I feel like it comes more so from those who potentially are non-Catholic. Imposing their beliefs on our faith and trying to tell us how we should feel or how we should you know, use our, our, our religion.

Andy Flattery: [00:10:54] Yeah. You know, it's, it's probably more explicit now that we, we have a bonafide [00:11:00] Catholic in the white house. I feel like I've been seeing this my whole life, Michael, where it almost, you know, I'm almost cynical to the point where it seems like every politician is trying to use you know, use the Bible or use religion and in some way to their own benefit And, and not really in an authentic, true way.

And so I've grown, I've grown cynical. I didn't know, actually that Biden carries a rosary. That's cool. I wish he would like tell America to pray the rosary. I'm sure he'll never do that, but that would be awesome if you would do that. But yeah, I've grown, I've grown so cynical and now I think it's, it's so explicit that we have a man in the white house that carries a rosary, that it seems an authentic.

Deb Meyer: [00:11:41] Well, and if you think back, you know, I'm not super well-versed in history, but if you think of like the separation of church and state as being one of the founding principles of our nation years ago, it's hard to say, okay, we should bring religion into this. Argument, but at the same time, this [00:12:00] election more than ever religion played a central role.

I mean, there were a lot of people who outwardly said, if you're a Christian, you should not be voting for any Democrat. Right. I mean like traditionally, most Catholics are conservative politically. And I think it's because we look at. That Val, you know, the set of values and the conscience, but then there becomes a line where certain political figures can sometimes cross it and turn us into, well, what, what do my values really say about this?

And could I still let my political beliefs. Live independently from what I'm feeling on a spiritual and religious level. And it there's no clear answer there. I think there's a lot of gray area and there continues to be one of the things that upsets me, you know, it was, I looked back at the riot that happened at the Capitol a few weeks ago is just around.

People [00:13:00] hearing the Jesus' signs and that, I mean, that's upsetting to me, that's an upsetting image when you're looking at a key piece of our democracy and. And trying to put Jesus as like the Epic, you know, the epicenter of why you're going there and, and rioting at the Capitol. So that I, I do find this a pretty interesting conversation and just I'm still struggling with it, myself of, of how, how much to bring my faith into the political sphere.

Michael Acosta: [00:13:30] Yeah. And I, and I would say being in the profession that, that we were in it's, it's hard because we have to be careful how much of our personal beliefs, how much of our political views we share, because potentially that that's a lost client, if that makes sense. But at the same time, it's, it's also a grace because that's potentially a lost client that wouldn't have aligned with us.

And, and, and our principles and our beliefs, and could have potentially been a headache for us. So you know, it's a fine [00:14:00] balance from a professional standpoint in a business owner standpoint, and it's always trying to manage that. And to your point you know, with the rioters protestors, carrying those signs, you know, we're now at a time where the deed is done.

We have a new president. It is what it is, no matter which side you voted for. Win or lose as Catholics. We're called to always pray for our political leaders. Those that are in charge as well as abide, abide by the, the, you know, the rules and the laws and also pray for our enemies. So at this point, it's, it's a mindset of, well, if you were on the losing side, praying for conversion of heart, praying for conversion of heart, for our political leaders, that they will guide us.

Closer to Jesus Christ as opposed to further away. Because you know, as a Catholic, I firmly believe that. Yeah, religion is becoming more and more difficult, especially during this pandemic. You know, we witness it at our parish and local [00:15:00] parishes and seeing you know, struggling financially, not being able to open their doors, turning people away because they're at max capacity without having virtual sessions to tune into being turned away from receiving the Eucharist, but being able to, you know, receive it virtually spiritually, which.

It it's great. And I understand the practice of it, but it's not the same thing as re receiving it in person. So, you know, it's, it's, now this pandemic is kind of leading into now controlling or impacting the freedom of practice of religion and how we can do it. And some bishops in different areas being more passive and others, more aggressive with how we manage the situation. So, so not to go into a complete tangent about this, but you know, it is something that is. Coming up and something that is real

Andy Flattery: [00:15:50] Yeah, I, I think you know, my, my takeaway is it's clear that, you know, we kind of live in a post-Christian world, you know the United States of America in 2020, you [00:16:00] know, it's not Christendom. And so I think I'm always weary to. To kind of hang my hat on the idea that there could be like a, kind of like a perfect Catholic candidate or like the perfect Catholic party.

And so to your point, when people start talking about religion in a, you know, in the media and social media and start kind of, you know going for the photo op if you will, with regards to certain things I'm, I'm very suspicious of it. So I, I understand totally what you're getting at there, Michael.

But, but as you say, we're, we're, we're gonna, we're gonna pray for president Biden and and hope that he has a successful presidency. And I think that's a good lead into what Deb, what Deb, what you're going to share with us. Cause you're going to tell us how to handle his, his tax proposals. Is that, is that right?

Deb Meyer: [00:16:50] Yeah. I wanted to just talk a little bit and about that. And, you know, I think a lot of people's they were. Casting their votes even a few months ago, we're kind of concerned. Okay. Well, you [00:17:00] know under a democratic administration, things are going to be a lot different than they are under a Republican administration.

And one of those areas is taxes. They have very different tax policies. If you think about it from a holistic perspective, you know, Republicans typically have low tax rates. Trump instituted the text T GCA back in 2017, the tax cuts and jobs act, and that resulted in a massive change to what people were seeing in terms of lower taxes.

Not only from a self-employment perspective, but just lower taxes across the board. See corporations being taxed at 21%, just crazy low rates, but under a Biden administration, that's going to be very different. A lot of those tax breaks. So we enjoyed a few years ago or the last few years are going to be repealed.

And I think As we look at the policies in general that you know, we clearly now have a [00:18:00] democratic Congress as well. We are able to see some major change in terms of helping, perhaps those who have been overlooked by society in the past four years. Helping, helping those who are hurting. In those hard hit areas, get on a better financial footing.

So having more stimulus money directed towards those individuals who are unemployed and who have had a difficult time securing employment, or if they were in a industry like hospitality or airlines, where they were, you know, suddenly furloughed. And then those furloughs turned into long-term unemployment, really trying to create.

Massive social change to, to impact those individuals who are severely hurt by COVID. But when you think about the tax policy and how much money it costs to fund the socialist programs, you have to raise the money somewhere and that's. Directly through taxes. So [00:19:00] under Biden's tax proposed tax policies that I've seen so far.

And again, this is not law yet, but it looks like anyone earning more than $400,000 a year and more is going to be paying higher income taxes. From an estate tax perspective, he'll probably lower the estate tax exemption back to more reasonable levels. The current levels I would say are extremely high, so that hardly anyone would have to pay a state tax.

So he's really taking if you think of it from kind of a Robin hood approach, you know, taking from the ultra wealthy to shifting it more to the lower and middle class, that's what we're faced with under these next four years. And I When I think about the $400,000 threshold personally, I think that's more than generous.

You know, people earning more than $400,000 a year probably should be paying a lot more in taxes than someone earning 80,000 a year or whatever the [00:20:00] dollar amount is. But I, I personally believe we're on a good trajectory and I'm excited about the social changes that are coming from this. But I also understand there's a lot of.

People who are upset right now. And if they are truly earning above those thresholds and then they're suddenly faced with much higher tax bills,

Andy Flattery: [00:20:21] Hey, Deb, are there

Deb Meyer: [00:20:22] what do you guys think about.

Andy Flattery: [00:20:24] Yeah. Are there one or two things that you think will be good, big planning opportunities for those that are in those higher tax brackets? You know, I'm thinking specifically of like W2 earners especially like in maybe in sales that actually do earn, you know, high six figure incomes.

We have plenty of those here in Kansas city. That really don't have a lot of ways to To really get like kind of great tax deductions that business owners will get. Are there any opportunities that you envision picking up here over the next year or two?

Deb Meyer: [00:20:54] Well, I, you know, one thing that I'm not quite sure about on the [00:21:00] deductions, like, obviously from an income standpoint, if you're earning more income, you can't really change that as a W2 employee or you're earning what you're getting from commissions or whatever role you're in, but you can look at the deductions and if you're taking the standard deduction, that's one thing.

But if you're itemizing deductions, you, you know, you have. Much higher cap on charitable contribution. So that could be a nice part that fits hand in hand with your stewardship and generosity is as your income is increasing from roles, you're also able to give more to charitable causes that are meaningful.

Whether that's your church or other organizations domestically or internationally, I would say that's probably my number one tax tip. And for those. W2 employees from a small business owner perspective, you know, there's more you can do as Andy alluded to where you're shifting income from one year to the next.

I was encouraging a lot of my clients who were kind of at that borderline income level [00:22:00] to accelerate some of the income into 2020 so that when they probably will get the raise here in, in 2021 on taxes, that they're actually Not, you know, they're, they're taking as much advantage of it as they can.

And the other big piece on the, the business owners is the QBI deduction, the qualified business income deduction. It's up to 20%. There are certain limitations there. But up to 20% of business income, that can be Deducted on, on their eventually on their 10 40. It also depends on some of the ownership structure of the business, but it's, it's an opportunity for those pastor businesses like escorts partnerships LLCs that are taxes, single member LLCs, that kind of thing.

Andy Flattery: [00:22:47] Yeah, it's one of these things, Deb, like I'm over here in fly over country and especially like where I grew up in North central Iowa. I mean, $400,000, you can live a pretty amazing life [00:23:00] with that kind of W2 income in, in rural Iowa. And it's, it's amazing that you know, just how different that is on the coast, for example I don't know what it's like where you, where you guys are at, but I have to imagine.

It just does not go as far in New York city or Washington DC. So it's one of these policies that it's really hard to say it's good or bad. Because it, it depends on where you're at, who you are and what your situation is.

Michael Acosta: [00:23:27] No. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I would, you know, in working with a handful of clients out in California, I mean, we all understand what the, the tax atmosphere looks like there, as well as the housing market in general. I mean, Medical professionals at that are making 200, 300, $400,000 a year. And, you know, just not to divulge on situations, but if they're managing student loan, debt, medical, student loan debt, and trying to purchase a home, you know, that's, that's a double whammy.

It's it's how do they afford to do that? And either end up renting duplexes or condos from [00:24:00] the vast majority of their thirties into their forties before they're even able to purchase a home or understanding that. You know, a fixer-upper is going to cost them 700 to 800 to $900,000.

Deb Meyer: [00:24:11] Yeah, it's definitely a hardship. When you think about it from not only a federal tax perspective, but even just the state and local taxes, depending on what area you're in, you know, I'm in the state of Florida. Now we have 0% state income tax. That's very different from those in California who, you know, might be holding comparable jobs, but they're getting, I don't know what California's tax rate is off the top of my head, but maybe it's.

Seven or 8%. I mean, that's a lot when you're factoring in much higher incomes and unfortunately the laws, you know, they don't take those kinds of considerations into account, especially at the federal level where they're like, Oh, well, someone in California earning for us thousand is different than someone in the Midwest.

Who has a much lower cost of living. So, you know, as you think about that, [00:25:00] even just in your own family planning, I, I do see a lot of opportunity of relocating to the lower cost of living areas and living handsomely on those kinds of salaries. If you can get those. Similar kind of roles. And now more than ever, you know, there's a lot of people finding they can do their jobs remotely.

So my husband, when we moved from St. Louis to Florida, just about a year ago he was able to take his position and work remotely. He still works exclusively with St. Louis clients, but has just been doing it from Florida this whole time.

Andy Flattery: [00:25:34] Yeah, it's a good point. I don't know if you guys have this, where you're at. We're we're we're, I'm at, I've been noticing, especially like our parish. There are some families that Are smart enough to recognize that about like the, the local taxes and especially with like the homeschool movement.

Some of these families are like opting out of the like the high property taxes in the city. And, and like the case of [00:26:00] Kansas city, like we have a 1% earnings tax for folks that live within liver work within Kansas city. And so many, many people are choosing to get a place out in the County. Get a little acreage, like 25 minutes out of Dodge.

And and of course it's, it's a cool lifestyle. You know, you can kind of live the agrarian lifestyle, but you know, you save three or 4% on your taxes as well, too, because the the property taxes are lower and you avoid some of the the higher costs that you incur in the cities.

Deb Meyer: [00:26:30] Exactly. And going back to, you know, the property taxes themselves, as I was talking about itemized deductions, you're capped at $10,000 a year of all kinds of taxes, if you are itemizing your deductions. So in that case, you know, if you're living in New Jersey, New York, California, any of those high cost of living areas, your property taxes are well over 10,000 a year.

That same home in the Midwest might be. Three or $4,000 a [00:27:00] year in property taxes is it's hard to know exactly, but there, there can be some immense savings just from choosing a lower cost of living area.

Michael Acosta: [00:27:09] So and, and Andy, I'll let you confirm whether or not this, this question is relevant to the topic, or if we need to maybe push this into a separate you know episode in itself. But do you feel that by increasing tax rates on individuals making 400,000 or more will increase tax revenues, or do you think it's going to reduce tax revenues?

Andy Flattery: [00:27:33] Yeah. I mean I've read, you know, I've read the articles about the Laffer curve, probably like, just like, I'm sure you have you know what I love, I love how in Catholicism we have this idea called the principle of subsidiarity where. You know, you, you kind of want decisions made at the most local level possible.

And so and so I think that's interesting. I it, it seems like most of the rhetoric around raising tax rates is frankly they, they want to see [00:28:00] the wealthy paying higher percentage. I think that's maybe what get, what dad was getting at. Cause it seems more fair. But but yeah, oftentimes like, like you said, it's, it can be kind of an adverse consequence where what ends up happening is the wealthy will just find different ways.

To pay people like Deb Meyer, you save money on taxes. So, you know, going back to the case of Elon Musk, Elon Musk will set up his company, so it doesn't pay dividends. And he will choose to never sell his stock because if you were to do that, he would have to pay taxes on the realized gains. And so it's interesting too, that I've Deb, you've probably seen this too.

I've seen it floated that They're actually thinking, they're actually thinking about taxing unrealized gains, which is, which would be amazing. But but my point is someone like Elon Musk, he's going to figure out how to pay the best people in the world to figure out how to get out of that situation.

And so oftentimes it doesn't have the the, the [00:29:00] perfectly realized result that I think people hope for.

Deb Meyer: [00:29:04] Yeah, that's a, that's a great point. I worked at a multi-family office before starting worthiness my advisory firm and Yeah. We spent a lot of our time trying to figure out ways to lower our client's tax bills because everyone there had, you know, financial net worth of at least a million of investible assets and some close to, you know, Or more than like a hundred million.

So obviously they have very different situations where they're looking to professional advisors to, to figure out ways to lower their tax liability, regardless of who's president or what laws get passed. And if anything, I think there is. That at work, but hopefully on the whole, I mean, not every person who's on that borderline and that will suddenly be in a slightly higher tax bracket.

They're not necessarily going out and paying thousands of dollars to try to find some [00:30:00] elaborate strategies on, on mitigating those taxes.

Andy Flattery: [00:30:03] awesome. Awesome. What's dead. That was a great topic. And maybe we'll end it with this. I didn't prepare you guys for this, but maybe you know, it's it's January, 2021. What, what are you guys indie right now? Do you have any recommendations? Any great books, podcasts, films. I'm I'm right now into reading.

A nice little. But it's almost a booklet called universal basic income for and against, by a fella named Anthony, Sam are off. And it's kinda cool. I, it's a, it's one of these topics that I kind of ignored for years and I knew it came up with th the yang president's presidential run last year.

And now with the. What's, what's seemingly going to be a an ongoing thing with the stimulus checks. I've decided to do a deep dive into this idea and find out, you know, what it's all about and what the ramifications [00:31:00] are. So I've been enjoying it. It's a fun little book it's called the universal universal basic income for and against by Anthony Samara.

Michael, what do you have for us?

Michael Acosta: [00:31:12] Yeah. So I've been, you know, just focused on reading the psychology of money, the timeless lessons on wealth, greed and happiness by Morgan household. Focusing more so on the psychology and I guess behavioral finance. Approaches to managing money and how there aren't direct correlations between certain decisions made success, how to, how to measure luck in life in general.

And it's, it's a great read. It's it's short. As far as, you know, 20 chapters, these chapters, five to seven. Pages if that, and it's just great how he's able to just touch on so many different topics and so many successful individuals. So many tidbits for me to be able to take and share with clients or potential clients and hopefully reframe their outlook on just money in general.

Andy Flattery: [00:31:58] Michael. I hear that name all the time [00:32:00] and I've just never picked up anything he's written. But I know that he's like considered to be one of the greats in the kind of financial writing sphere.

Michael Acosta: [00:32:10] Yeah, no, it's I had never read anything from him previously. And someone, another advisor here locally we'd been meeting once a month to pray the rosary as men and just kind of share some fellowship, shared it with me and it's been. I don't want to use the cliche term of life-changing, but it has been for me personally and how I kind of manage my own finances, but also how I share with my clients and try to educate them taking on that role as educator.

And one of the biggest quotes that stood out to me within his book, if you don't mind me sharing it, it's, it's, it's from John D Rockefeller, who we know is just known as one of the wealthiest individuals of his time. And so. Everyone used to give Rockefeller a hard time because he was more or less a recluse when he [00:33:00] was in meetings with people.

Didn't talk much, very much quiet. And I'll add that, you know, lacrosse in college, our coach, one of the things that he shared with us was, you know, God gave you two ears and one mouth for a reason, listen, twice as much as you speak. And so my entire life I've been somewhat of this introvert. If you will.

I do really well in smaller groups. I walk into a group of 2030 people where they're already established having conversations. I find it very hard to interject, be heard and. And, you know, take part in that group, but can have very meaningful in-depth sidebar conversations with individuals at the group.

And so the quote goes like this. When asked about his silence during meetings, Rockefeller often recited a poem, a wise old owl lived in an Oak. The more he saw, the less he spoke, the less he spoke, the more he heard. Why aren't we all like that wise old bird, it just reaffirmed that, Hey, you know, Michael being an introvert, being the gentleman in these large meetings that sit back and kind of takes [00:34:00] all the conversations in, and I won't say strategically kind of digest it, but you know, it's okay to do that.

It's okay to be like that. You know, they're very successful. Individuals that have that same personality, if you will. So that was one of the biggest, biggest takeaways that I've taken from that out of probably a dozen others. That, that there's just not enough time to share about.

Andy Flattery: [00:34:23] I love that, man. That's awesome. And then well, Deb, what do you have for us?

Deb Meyer: [00:34:28] Well along a similar line. One of the books I recently finished was called God and money. It's by Gregory bomber. I hadn't heard of him before, but just the title struck me because I always trying to figure out this balance of you know, putting my faith first, but also how does that fit into the financial realm and the interesting part about this story?

It talks the subtitle is how we discovered true riches at Harvard business school. And you think from the title that, Oh, it's. C's [00:35:00] super ultra wealthy business savvy guys that are just like all about making money, but what they find within the first few years of their careers, that they really are there to have a servant, heart and mindset, knowing that it's not their money, it's God's money.

This idea of being stewards of his not. Owning something or generating a financial wealth out of their own gain. And then they put a really cool framework together for as you advance and kind of the financial security and savings and income levels. What some frameworks can be around the charitable giving as that happens.

So you know, starting at more of a foundational level, kind of that standard 10% tie that we're we hear about in the Bible. And I know it's not as publicized in our churches or at least not mine. But. Having that kind of [00:36:00] obligatory giving and then advancing to more of this giving where you're just thinking about what are the expenses we need to have a, you know, fairly comfortable life as a family and any excess goes, goes to God, right.

Goes to, to causes that are Outside of our immediate family. So it's a cool framework. I really liked that book. And the one I'm reading right now is called the people pleasers guide to loving others without losing yourself. It's by my friend, Mike Bechtle, he's actually in a mastermind group with me that we're wrapping up here in a few weeks, but he has written a couple of other books.

One of them was called Dealing with the elephant in the room and it was all about communication. And I'm just reading I'm about halfway through and I'm finding it really, really insightful. And it's obviously not finance specific, but it just helps me get a framework for, you know, learning to, to continue to [00:37:00] be a good person for others.

But also having some self-care from time to time. And not seeing people pleasing as a complete negative that there are some positives that can come from it as well.

Andy Flattery: [00:37:13] Interesting. Thanks Michael. Hey guys. I thought that went pretty well. First time out for around the horn. Not bad, right?

Michael Acosta: [00:37:20] Yeah, and I thought it turned out really great.

Andy Flattery: [00:37:23] I think that's it for our podcast. If you want to learn more about us or get on our email lists, make sure to visit Catholic financial planners.com and we'll see you next time.