The Finances of Education for Catholic Families

The Finances of Education for Catholic Families
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Andy Flattery: Welcome back to Catholic money mastermind. This is the show where we explore the intersection of our faith and finances. You can learn more about our organization and find show notes@catholicfinancialplanners.com. Please note that nothing in this episode should be construed as investment tax or legal advice.

And today I’m joined by Deb Meyer by Charlie Huron, Z. And my name is Andy flattery. How are you all?

Deb Meyer: Well, thanks.

Andy Flattery: So we’re calling this education planning for Catholic families. And so I thought what we could do is kind of talk about. Planning your children’s education from a Catholic perspective, because maybe we as Catholics, think about this a little bit differently than non-Catholics. So maybe Charlie to put the ball in your court.

Why, why does this issue matter to Catholics? How do Catholics think about how to educate their children? And why, why, why does this matter to us? Maybe more than a non-Cat.

Charlie Horonzy: Sure. So when we, as Catholics, think about education planning, we have a variety of options. So mainly. People think about who aren’t Catholic go into the public school system or maybe a private school system, but we as Catholics, there’s also the homeschool option as well. So when it comes to the different options of homeschool versus Catholic versus public, it makes a wide variety of options when it comes to just the education and rearing over your children.

Where is it? Do you want it in the. The public school system, or do you want to have more of an engagement gauging role with a homeschool or do you want to have it more of a mixture where you still get the Catholic perspective, but it’s more inappropriate will or Catholic?

Andy Flattery: Yeah. When we did this on our study group call, I pulled up this passage from the catechism. This is catechism to two to three, which I think is kind of a good place to start now. It hits on. What you’re talking about is a co parents have the first responsibility for the education of their children. They bear witness to this responsibility first by creating a home where tenderness, forgiveness, respect, fidelity, and disinterested service are the rule.

The home is well-suited for education in the virtues. This requires. And apprenticeship and self-denial sound judgment. And self-mastery the preconditions of all true freedom. Parents should teach their children , to subordinate, , the material and instinctual dimensions to inferior and spiritual ones.

Parents have a grave responsibility to give good example to their children and quote. So that’s from the catechism. You know, H how does that relate to what we’re talking about here with kind of formal education? Well, you know, , maybe we are all going to homeschool and then maybe we will, but more than likely. If we’re the primary educators of our children. , the point is we have decisions to make and we want to do the best thing for our children. We know our children more than anyone else. And maybe, you know, if the default years ago would have been well, you’ll just, you just send your children to the local public school.

Cause that’s, that means they’ll get a good education. You, you, you send your children to the local parochial Catholic school because the clergy will make sure they get a good education. Now, I think this all resonates with kind of modern parents where they recognize the flaw and kind of the both of those options where you can’t really just outsource everything to you know, the, the government or the clergy even parents have to take a more kind of dedicated role.

Do you guys agree or disagree with.

Deb Meyer: Yeah. I agree to a certain extent. I think there’s a lot of Consideration, you have to give as a parent in terms of where you think your child’s really going to thrive and learn the values that you’re trying to pass down to them. I’m I already have a 12 year old and for me it’s like, oh my gosh, I only have six more years of shaping him before he potentially goes off to college.

Or if he doesn’t want to go to college, that he just, you know, starts being more self-sufficient on his own. And it’s It’s just this sense of like, oh gosh, every moment really does count. And it’s not just the hours of, of eight to three or nine to four or whatever the school hours are, but it’s really the day-to-day living and on weekends and an evenings that I think we’re really shaping our kids’ futures.

So school is one part of that and it’s a big part, but I do think we need to Really focus on the values that we’re trying to pass down to our kids outside of traditional education and, and put a lot of emphasis on those even more so than the, the schooling. Sure.

Charlie Horonzy: Yeah, I would agree with that. I think that. It starts with the family. So when it comes to school, having a school that echoes his family values as much more powerful, I believe that having a school that fights against the family values and then you have to come home and you have to reinstill your values over the school’s values.

So when it comes to the three options of schooling, Looking at the school to see, okay, what are they teaching? My children? Does that echo the family language because we only do have, you know, 18 years and really until French takeover, we only have about 10 to 12 years and then friends are more influential than parents.

So we really have to echo that was values in the home and have a school that echoes.

Andy Flattery: Yeah, well, well said. And so I, I bring up You know, the kind of skepticism that maybe is out there with regards to government school, if there’s kind of, you know, if the wrong values are in these schools or even values are antithetical to Catholicism, or, you know, maybe some of the private schools that we’ve learned over the years, just aren’t really all that Catholic.

If, if that’s what you’re going for and hopefully you are, but also like I want to bring. The fact that there are options because luckily, like we do live in a world today where parents are necessarily pushed in a corner. You know, there are things that parents can do. There are school options, there are opportunities to move and, and technology has made it.

So you know, you can, if you’re homeschooling, you’re not necessarily just buying old books and throwing them at your kids, like you can, you know, you can actually. Expose them to curriculums that are very, very inexpensive. Like, you know, the Khan academy for example is free. And of course there are ones you can pay for that can be more tailored to your children.

So I bring it up because you don’t necessarily have to be a cynic about everything. You can actually be an optimist and say, well, parents are now, now have more options than what they ever have before. And I should mention that I, my kids aren’t in school yet. So I’m kind of speaking of. Speaking as someone that just had a lot of these conversations with clients. But it is cool that there are a lot of options out there. If you think about it, maybe the, the ideal situation would be, you know, if, if, if St Thomas Aquinas were alive today, you’d want to be a student of St. Thomas. You could learn from, from the literal master though, a doctor of the church. Well, now with technology, you know, you can’t necessarily be a student of St.

Thomas at least sitting in the same room with them, but perhaps you could watch him on a zoom screen. Right. That’s kind of what kids are doing.

Charlie Horonzy: Sure. And then Deb, you’re the little, you’re the expert here because both Andy and I, our kids are too young for school. I have a two and a one year old and you’re right in the thick of it. So

Deb Meyer: I am all three of my, yeah, all three of my boys are school age. So I will share, you know, I have a first grader, third grader and seventh grader this year. And just from my perspective and kind of the evolution of, of schooling choices, I’ve seen, you know, I Originally started our kids at a local Catholic school when we lived in a suburb of St.

Louis. And I really loved that school. I loved just being able to go to mass on Fridays and be a part of that with my kids. And then they would go on to the rest of their school day. My husband and I never really thought we were feeling called in the direction of homeschooling. So for us, that wasn’t really an option where we felt it was going to be.

Beneficial. We both have outside. Careers. And it’s, it’s hard to make that time commitment to them from a homeschool perspective while, while doing some of these work responsibilities. And I know that’s probably a whole other conversation about women in the workforce and things like that, but just for our family, that wasn’t really a viable option.

But then when we moved to Florida about a year and a half ago we made the decision at that time to put our kids in a it’s called a charter school. It’s, it’s basically a public school, but it’s a more refined kind of environment. And it’s specifically focused on project-based learning and stem education.

And for those who don’t know stem it’s science, technology engineering. Focused. And then as we made that transition, you know, one of the things that we liked about it was, it was a little bit different instruction from, from the traditional Catholic school, but it was also very close cause it’s in our new community.

But the thing that we really struggled with was okay, how are we going to get our kids that. Extra level of Catholic values that we still want to instill in them. And for that we’ve just pursued religious education through our local Catholic church. So. That’s kind of where we’ve been out on the journey in terms of, of going through it.

But, you know, we still do miss a lot of the Catholic schooling that we received before. And we’re always kind of in that reconsideration stage to see if it makes sense to, to switch back to that other.

Andy Flattery: I like your example, Deb, cause it’s real life and that’s, I mean, that’s the real world that people live in. I have you, have you been encouraged by the the formation that they’re getting through the church and like, do your, do your kids like have other Catholic friends in their school?

Deb Meyer: I would say the, we just live in an interesting area now where there’s really not a large Catholic population and where we came from St. Louis is a very large Catholic population. So it was really going from one extreme to another. And I mean, to be quite honest, there’s only one other family I recognized from the whole school that actually attends our church.

So it’s kind of a weird, and their kids aren’t even in the same grades as mine. So it’s just one of those. I wish there was more of a chance to cultivate community here. And I recognize that you might be based, you know, people listening to the podcast episode here, you might be based in an area where there’s just not a strong Catholic community where.

You know, you do have to drive quite a bit just to get to church, let alone the only Catholic schooling option in the area. And in our case, if we were to put our kids in Catholic school here it would be a 35 minute drive each way just to get them to school. So that’s, you know, five days a week and, and all the rest.

But I say all this to. Hmm. I mean, I think in your, in, in whatever circumstance you’re dealing with, you have to be cognizant of the opportunities that are available and if it really makes logistical sense for your family to. To engage with that Catholic school, or if you can, you know, be okay putting your kids in a public school environment, but make sure they’re getting that extra education through the religious ed, the religious ed program.

I, you know, I don’t have a great sense of what all they discuss. I get like occasional updates, but again, I think it’s going to vary parish by parish and I don’t know. Speak poorly or

Andy Flattery: Yeah.

Deb Meyer: on anything, you know, in my particular instance. But it, it was, I would say the, the curriculum in the religious ed that I didn’t feel was as strong as what they were getting at the Catholic school.

Where were you?

Andy Flattery: So Charlie we’re we’re financial planners. So we don’t, we don’t tell our clients how they should educate their children. We help them. I achieved the goals that are important to them and we help them, you know, we help them fully realize what, you know, what the possibilities are and, and, and to accomplish those possibilities.

So when you’re having these conversations with clients what are some of the considerations? What are some of the reasons people might choose a parochial school or a private school or a charter school or home or homeschooling option that you’re hearing when you have these conversation?

Charlie Horonzy: Yeah, I think Deb hit the nail on the head when it comes to what kind of values you want to instill in your kid. When you start looking at the different schools, obviously education’s really important, but I think a lot of my clients, when I start having these conversations, particularly the ones that.

Our Catholic, they start to look at the school as not only the education, but the values that come along with that too. So like Deb said, you know, she has, she goes to charter school with her kids right now and she is now has the Catholicism from the church. And when I talk about with my clients is, do you want to have that all integrated?

How are you going to do this? If it’s if it’s separate and the little things to think about, not only that, then there’s the other piece of things is a cost piece of things too, because Catholic school, although it may be really great, it may not be in the budget. People out there and if it’s not in the budget, then is there something that you can do with your budget?

Can you sacrifice in another area where you make that Catholic school attainable? Or can you, can you look at a different area where it’s like, okay, we’re not going to do Catholic school, but we are going to have, you know, every, every night we’re going to spend an hour as with family time. So we can really get those, those values that we share.

Andy Flattery: Right, right. Yeah. My, my own experiences, I went to kind of a traditional parochial school set up in a growing up. So a K through 12 Catholic school situation. And, you know, it was a big sacrifice from my kind of middle-class parents to send five kids through that school and to pay that tuition year in and year out.

And I have to say like, I don’t, I don’t know. If it was money well spent, if the goal was religious formation. And that’s kinda why earlier I, I kind of was making fun of the idea of like outsourcing religious formation to the clergy because we, we just didn’t have it in the, in the nineties and the early two thousands at our Catholic school.

Now I go back there today and I think it’s getting a little bit better, which is encouraging, but one of the. Beautiful things about like the career that I’m in and the fact that I’m a I’m a solo financial advisor. I mean, I run my own firm today. I’m working on my home office is like, we will make the choice to move to the right situation for our children because we can do that.

And so like if it becomes a scenario where we just don’t live near a good school, And we don’t want a homeschool, cause I I’m just not quite sold on that for our family yet. W we will move because I think there are plenty of options out there. So that’s another thing to think about too is like what, what, what is your career like if you, if you run a business, if you have kind of a solo financial practice?

Well, it makes it a little bit easier to kind of to kind of go and set up shop wherever is the right place for your.

Charlie Horonzy: You know, on, on that too. One thing I like to tell clients, too, that with Catholic school, it may be out of the realm. You also have to think about the keeping up with the Joneses. And I say that because when you’re in a Catholic school, usually the Catholic schools, there’s people with a lot more money and a lot more means in those Catholic schools.

And it’s really easy for us as adults to say, you know what? I can sacrifice. I can do this at that to serve my kids. But when it comes to kids and little, Timmy’s got, you know, the latest, greatest clothes or a new video game or whatever it may be. And it’s just not in the budget to do that. It really puts a lot of stress on families.

And I like to point that out to my client.

Deb Meyer: Can I interject for a minute? Cause I do have I agree with you and I that’s the thinking I had actually initially I was very concerned about. Having my kids in Catholic school and being surrounded by a bunch of other affluent families and not really understanding the value of generosity or service, things like that, that what I found more and more is. Those kinds of kids existed. Every school, like I actually know of another family in my area that, you know, they’re making some choices that I would never recommend. Like, I, I know what they’re doing. Cause I see them doing it with their kids on a regular basis. And it’s like, that’s not a value that I want to teach my kids, but I have to have those frequent conversations with them.

Outside of the times they’re seeing their friends to say like, okay, yes, so-and-so so-and-so’s parents were making a lot of money, but it doesn’t mean you should be Spending it in this fashion or, or, you know just getting whatever you want all the time. So a lot of it is, again, going back to the parental responsibility of having those tough conversations, when you do see other kids buying the next hot thing or their parents, you know giving them more than they could possibly want or need.

Andy Flattery: It’s a great point. Yeah. What I was referring to kind of the school that has the best religious formation, I don’t know what you guys are seeing where you’re at. Like w w what I’m seeing, like in, in my area is it’s not necessarily the school. The, you know, the pipeline to Notre Dame, right? Like the the expensive Jesuit school that has like the really good football team is, is not necessarily like what I would call the best Catholic school.

Right. And so like, I think. To the point about keeping up with the Jones is like, I guess if your goal is to like, you know, get your children into Notre Dame or get your children into Ivy league school, like maybe that’s a consideration. But I think I think, you know, I think a lot of serious Catholics are looking for more than that.

And that’s not always in some of these expensive, these expensive schools that exist for that reason.

Deb Meyer: Right. And there can be some nuances too, between the different types of Catholic schools. You might have some that are attached to a parish where the tuition is more affordable. And then in other cases, you have a situation where it’s not attached to a parish, so there is no subsidy. So they’re charging, you know, $15,000 of tuition per kid per year.

So those exist and in many different, you know, larger cities and even among the Catholic. Educational system, you might find some pretty large discrepancies on tuition rates.

Charlie Horonzy: And I’d also say on Catholic formation to my parish, that I was attending in Chicago, they have a lot of people who go to the parish strictly for the education, mean the parish school. They go to the parish school for the education. So when it comes to Catholicism in that school, a lot of families say we don’t want that taught.

And it’s really tough on the pastor because obviously it’s a Catholic school, but there’s a lot of Muslims. There’s a lot of Jewish people because of the education in the school and not to say. You know, we need to have only Catholics at a school, but that is a consideration too. When you are looking at a school, is what kind of formation are they getting?

Is it strictly for education or is it something different?

Deb Meyer: Well, one other point I’ll bring up with that is, you know, the school my kids did previously attend. It had a very large segment of non-Catholic families, but I didn’t ever feel like my kids were. Antagonized or given like less than fair treatment because they were Catholic in a Catholic school. And I think part of our mission as Catholics is to be more welcoming of others, even if they look or practice a different religion than us.

So for me, it was kind of a bonus that, that they were exposed to other kids who were not Catholic in that Catholic school invited.

Charlie Horonzy: Sure. Yeah. And I, I would agree with that too well, but my point was more that the pastor was in a predicament because a lot of the families didn’t want Catholic taught at Catholicism, taught at the Catholic school versus just the education.

Deb Meyer: Right, right. Yeah. That, and that would be concerning if you had a lot of parents feeling that way. But I, at least at my school, it was very apparent that yes, there’s going to be Catholic teaching here. Now, if they wanted to opt out of, you know, they didn’t do first communion. And the class, they did it more of like a, Hey, anyone that happens to be Catholic, that’s attending the Catholic school.

If you can make first communion here at the parish, but they were making it at the parish along with other kids in religious ed. So it was it, it didn’t cross that line of feeling like, okay, we have this Catholic school, but we can’t actually put any Catholic doctrine into the teaching.

Charlie Horonzy: Sure. Sure. And I’m all for having more people and various face too. I think that’s wonder.

Andy Flattery: Well, let me throw just kind of one more, one more option out there that I’m seeing is the, the classical model. So shout out to my friends here in Kansas city at the Chesterton cademy of St. Phillip Neary. I’ve been noticing also an interest in this Christian classical education. So the, the, the model that I’ve seen is.

Th the children, it’s kind of like a, I guess you’d call it a co-op that the children will go to a school for like two to three days a week. And then the rest of the week, they will be at home in kind of like a hybrid homeschool sort of situation. And there’s been some kind of entrepreneurial ventures around this idea.

This, this Chesterton academy is opening up this year. Some friends of mine are opening up a Catholic classic classic. High school here in in the, in Midtown, Kansas city. So it’s kind of interesting. Have you guys seen this too?

Deb Meyer: I saw that model in St. Louis actually. Yeah, Pope John Paul, or I’m sorry, John Paul, the second it’s based in St. Charles, Missouri. It’s that same kind of classical model. It’s a hybrid homeschool Catholic school.

Charlie Horonzy: Yeah, I’ve not heard of this yet. This sounds really.

Deb Meyer: I don’t know the particulars, but it is a kind of cool idea to explore, especially if you have that flexibility in your work life, where you could be doing some homeschooling and having some more formal instruction

Andy Flattery: While you’re here, you’re getting into like this kind of Catholic education. That’s not just, we’re, you know, we’re associated with the diocese and we teach, we teach the faith, but all, but like, they’re actually thinking about like, what, what is education? And you know, what is the best way to To pass on like the best of Western civilization to children.

So like, Play-Doh has this quote that’s like quote knowledge, which is acquired under compulsion obtains. No, hold on the mind. So it’s kind of rethinking, you know, education, you know, in general. So, you know, not only is. Not only is it rethinking government schooling and kind of broke your schooling, but actually you know, maybe even more what, what dad is talking about.

Like, it’s another option, like charter schooling, except this is a kind of Christian classical education. So.

Charlie Horonzy: So Andy, do they focus a lot on the Socratic method in that school

Andy Flattery: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. They’re there they’re there, they have, you know, Socratic style teaching you know, the kids are using or learning things like rhetoric and Latin as young children, which, you know, I certainly never took those courses and I was a kid. So it’s, it’s, it’s really interesting. And, and I don’t, I don’t know as much about it as I need to, but I’ve had more and more. Talk about it. That makes me think that it’s pretty significant.

Deb Meyer: Yeah, I would say if you live in a city where that’s an option, definitely go to an open house or reach out to an administrator just to get a better feel for it, because it is a very unique model. And I do think it has a lot of I actually went to one of the open houses before we moved. Curious about it.

And I mean, what I found, like the tuition rate was actually fairly comparable to what we were paying at the traditional Catholic school. And that could be just from a size perspective or, you know, I, I don’t know exactly how that, how that gets decided, but the, the actual curriculum was very unique and really compelling.

So.

Andy Flattery: Well, let me ask you guys this question. So we’ve been kind of talking about all of these options as if like, you know, the, these are the tools in the toolbox and you need to choose, you know, which option is best for you based on your situation and who your children are. But one of the things that came up on our study group call was that, you know, I guess there was a Bishop, maybe in North Dakota, if I recall. Was kind of trying to turn his, his parishioners, his, his people away from homeschooling, because, you know, he thought maybe that takes away from the Catholic schools that already exists. What are your guys’ thoughts about that? Is that, is that above our pay grade? Or do you have any kind of idea kind of thoughts on how homeschooling may or may not work with the current system that we have.

Deb Meyer: Charlie. You’re going to go first.

Charlie Horonzy: Oh, I was waiting for

Andy Flattery: Maybe that’s too heavy. You have a question.

Charlie Horonzy: I can, I can take a stab at it. So when I went to high school, I went to a Catholic high school out in the suburbs of Illinois of Chicago, Illinois. And there was a lot of, it was run by Benedictine monks and there was a lot of monks in the classroom and there was nothing that could fly, you know, back in was only 20 years ago, you know, back in early two thousands.

Mark would have a ruler and he’d slap your hand or he pick a backhand or it’d be like a lot different than it is today. And I’m not, I’m not advocating corporal punishment or anything. But what I am saying is that I think that. Made a respect for the learning. And I, the reason I bring that up is because now the way I see it is that there is a lot less discipline in the classroom, and I can see why families want to go away from some of the Catholic schools, because like I brought up the. The conversation earlier about the one parish I know is where a lot of those values aren’t even taught. So when it comes to taking away to a. Homeschooling system. I can understand where the Bishop is saying is they’re taken away from the church, but you can also donate more to the church and you can also get involved if you want to at your parishional parishioner board and still have your kids out of the school and doing homeschool and, and still be effective in.

The church and, and help with that. So you can make a school that you want to send a child to, and you can be a part of your parish. So I would say, I think it’s okay to not have your child going to a Catholic school, but you could still support the church with your money and with your.

Deb Meyer: Yeah, I agree with that perspective, Charlie. I think there’s a really important piece of. Figuring out what each kid in your family is going to, where they’re going to thrive the most? I mean, one of the reasons I was considering the, this outside schooling, the John Paul, the second which was that kind of hybrid homeschool Catholic school curriculum was because my oldest son was struggling.

Like he was having a lot of challenges at the former Catholic school. Just. Teachers and friends and all of that. And it was one of those situations where I’m like, okay, there has to be a better alternative. So I think when parents are making those decisions about where to put their kids into school, they have to understand that one environment might work really well for one child and not work so well for another child.

And there’s no fault of having to. Hold your child out of that toxic environment and put them into some other environment. If that’s going to help them thrive as a person and become a better version of themselves. So I don’t see it as a big. Concern. I was a little shocked that the Bishop actually made that comment to be honest, because I don’t feel like it’s pulling them away.

Like, I don’t think people are leaving Catholic schools in such rapid numbers to homeschool as they might be pulling them out of Catholic schools and putting them in public instead. Right. Like I don’t think homeschool is our big enemy here.

Andy Flattery: Yeah, I just, with all, with all due respect and like, I, you know, I don’t, I don’t exactly know what was said and who said it, but like, I, I do think it’s a little tone deaf of a Bishop to not recognize that there are some issues with Catholic schools. Like every, everybody knows that. I mean, what’s the meme of like the, the biggest partiers in college were the ones that went to the Catholics.

Right. We all, we all know, we all know those schools. And I think Bishop Barron is even talking about, talked about the fact that it’s good to have homeschoolers, you know, doing this because it keeps the Catholic schools honest, like it says, Hey, there, there are devout families that are trying to get a quality Catholic education and they don’t see it at some of the Catholic schools.

So it’s, it’s good to have that kind of that other, that third option. So to piggyback off of that, what Deb said is I didn’t even know about homeschooling before I did a program, a Catholic program called net ministries. And with that, I saw there’s a ton of people who do homeschool, but when it comes to the general public and the, you know, what the Bishop said, I don’t think it’s something that.

Charlie Horonzy: That the dioce really needs to worry about because growing up Catholic, my whole life, I didn’t even know about homeschooling was an issue or not, sorry, not an issue, but was an option I should say until I I really delved more into Mike ethics.

Andy Flattery: Got it. So this is good stuff, guys. So let’s get into. Some kind of nitty-gritty here. So what, what financial tips or what financial considerations can Catholic families think about? If let’s start with, let’s start with private school and if they want to send their children to a private or parochial school, what are some of the financial considerations that families can make?

Deb? Can I start.

Deb Meyer: Sure I would highly recommend if you’re contributing to a 5 29 savings plan to consider that as an option for K through 12 expenses. Again, it depends on the state that you live in. Some states are more stringent than others in terms of. Whether you take that money out before 12th grade, if it’s truly a if they’re going to tax it or, or not, but like in the state of Missouri where I used to live once the federal tax law changed to allow 5 29 plan distributions for K through 12, The Missouri followed suit and said, yes, you can absolutely do that.

So we were even strategizing, I still have clients in Missouri that I’m advising on this, where we put a contribution in at the V you know, at the beginning or throughout the year. And then we take it out tuition purposes, and we just end up still getting a nice little tax credit because we’re on the Missouri return because we’re able to. Make more of a contribution that we’re taking out and we’re able to retain that. So it’s it’s a good option if you’re thinking from like, Advantageous way of, of paying for private school. Five 20 nines can be a great tool. On the flip side, they could also be saved for those longer-term expenses like college.

But you know, that’s something we, you don’t know when your kid is three years old. If they’re going to go onto a four year college, if they’re going to want to be in a trades, like it’s hard to know exactly what that career path looks like when they’re so.

Charlie Horonzy: Yeah. And I would also say too, that I think that’s a great idea dab, especially with the new changes that came from the secure act. I would say that you can do up to $10,000 per student per year on that. So you don’t want, you want to make sure you don’t go over $10,000. To pay tuition on that too.

You’d also want to, if you want to get a little bit more tactical, you also want to think about if it’s coming from a parental 5 29 plan or a grandparent 5 29 plan because as a go to school, meaning Higher education that gets if it’s a grandparent versus a parent, it gets changed. It’s the calculations are different on the FASFA form for, for student aid.

So just keep that in consideration. And obviously just for this podcast you’d want to work with someone on that. You wouldn’t want to do that, that alone, but talk to a qualified financial planner. Okay.

Andy Flattery: Good stuff, you know, and another thing to consider too is before ruling out, if you, you know, if there’s a good school, you want to send your children to, but before ruling it out as an option because you see how expensive these schools are, you should do your homework and find out, you know, what, what.

Assistance is available because most of these schools, they offer some sort of assistance at the school, or maybe the diocese offers some sort of assistance. So, you know, my favorite example is there’s a, a wonderful private Catholic school here in Kansas city called Saint James academy. And there’s a family of nine that set nine kids through this school.

And as I recall and chatting with, with, with the father of these kids, like I think they all went for free because there was some sort of scholarship fund for large families. And I think large families can, can benefit from that a lot, but, but it’s not just large families like here in the state of Missouri, for example low income families can actually qualify for a voucher system to send their children to any school.

So you have the option as a low income family to not only send your kid to a public school, but you can actually send your kids to a private school here. In the state of Missouri, that’s kind of an interesting piece of legislation that just passed earlier this year. So there is assistance out there whether it’s private assistance with the school or the diocese, or like, you know, government assistance.

There’s plenty of that as well, too, for low-income families.

Charlie Horonzy: Sure. Sure. And I would piggyback off of that and to say it depends on the state because Illinois, there is no voucher system. And when it comes to public school, it’s very strong in Illinois and they, they will not allow a voucher system. Right.

Andy Flattery: Yeah, a hundred percent yet you have to know your specific area and even your specific diocese. So like, you know, some, some diocese will have like their own version of the FAFSA form, for example, where, where they offer assistance, just like, you know, just like filling out the FAFSA to go to college. For example, Deb, did you have anything to add?

Deb Meyer: Yeah, just two things. I would say it’s very specific to your area. And I know at least in St. Louis. They had established what’s called like the today and tomorrow educational fund. And that was specifically to help send more kids to Catholic schools in the area. So there are, and I think on our prior study group call Robert from Cincinnati, he said there was something similar in Cincinnati.

So I mean really do some additional homework and figure out. Opportunities might be available to go even above and beyond what the norm is for them, for that financial aid. And then the other thing, just drawing back on my own experience, I went to an all girls Catholic high school up in Milwaukee. And my dad lost his job like right before I was supposed to start. And my sister was a senior in high school as I was a freshman. And I just remember being like, I really want to go to this school so bad. And they called the office and made it work. They put me on like a work study program and, you know, those kinds of things can happen where you suddenly have, you know, you have great cash flow for a while.

Suddenly someone loses their job. The situation changes. You just need to go to the school and let them know how much you really want to still be part of the school. Even if finances are a struggle at that moment in time, a lot of them will work with you.

Charlie Horonzy: Sure. One thing that I think is wonderful is being Catholic, is that the Catholic schools want to work with you. I had a similar experience. I went to an all boys and military high school and one of my friends, they come from a family of eight and they didn’t have the tuition. So he had a work study program and it made it work.

And there’s a lot of money out there. With people who want to give to the Catholic church and who wants to have the students go and get that education?

Andy Flattery: That’s terrific. So thinking maybe about some of the more creative, personal finance hacks that people do. One of the things that I’ve noticed too, is that families that are. Sending their kids to private school or, or homeschool. Sometimes they move to like a, maybe an area with lower, lower property taxes.

I don’t know if you guys have seen this. So like we’ve got a friend and. He homeschools his children and what they did is since they didn’t care about the school district that they lived in, they moved 25 minutes out of town to find an acreage which was affordable for them. And they were able to basically kind of get more house and didn’t necessarily care about the neighborhood that they lived in because of.

’cause they, they weren’t sending their kids to the local public school. So that, that could be kind of an interesting arbitrage. If your house, if you’re one of these people that you don’t view your house as an investment, if you do, you should probably live in a good school district because that’s a good, a good real estate strategy.

But if, but if you don’t, if your house is more of a consumption item, you know, you want an acreage, so your kids can run around and. You know, you can have a garden and stuff like that. You could move to an area with with lower property taxes. If you guys seen that too.

Deb Meyer: I haven’t seen a mesh, but that’s a great idea, especially, or if you’re insistent on sending your kids to Catholic school, you know, I guess it’s not as much of a consideration what school district that you’re in. If you’re planning to make a move.

Charlie Horonzy: And one thing that I think about, especially with the pandemic and how schooling has really changed, even with what you said, Deb, about, you know, everyone being home now is that maybe a Catholic school in California or Catholic school in Minnesota or Florida or wherever it is, they may be able to get students all across the country.

In the future because of technology these days. So we might not be limited to the Catholic schools that are just in our area, but maybe the Catholic schools all around the country and it might really change education.

Andy Flattery: Yeah, that’s so interesting. Charlie did, did did the pandemic. Zoom school. Just didn’t normalize it for everybody, right? We’re now we’re. Now if zoom school is normalized, well, then what’s who’s to say you can’t go to any school in and not just the one that’s you know, down the street.

Charlie Horonzy: Totally. And it just for my practice, I haven’t seen a client in person since March of 2020, and most of my clients who I offer, like, do you want to see in person they’re like, no. So I’m wondering if that’s, that’s, what’s going to happen with, with education. And not only that, but we’re talking about 5 29 plans earlier.

College, you know, maybe college, like we had in the last 50 years where you go to a four-year university, you dorm there, maybe that’s because it’s going to get blown up because with tuitions, they are the way they are many people might say, I’m not going to go there. I’m just going to go online and maybe we’ll see something completely different with technology who knows.

Deb Meyer: true.

Andy Flattery: Well, good. Well, yeah, as we wrap this up, do you guys have any parting thoughts or encouragement for families that are dealing with dealing with this right now? You know, families like Deb, whose kids got kicked out of school because everybody’s got COVID or, you know, kind of trying to navigate the confusing world where we do have so many options.

Deb Meyer: I just say from a note of encouragement that you’re doing a great job as a parent, even thinking about this, right. That you’re, you’re really trying to put focus and intentionality and what you choose at one point. Doesn’t have to be forever. If, if it’s not working, you can make a change at a later time.

There’s always a way to make that financially work. And that’s what we’re here for as Catholic financial planners to really be that sounding board and guiding voice as you navigate these changes.

Charlie Horonzy: And I would say you’re not alone. There’s other Catholic families who are dealing with this too. And. Recommend going through your church, going through your parish, talking to people and finding out who is struggling with this. And who’s having these conversations and form groups and, and really lean on your parish and lean on your community.

So you can go through this together and you don’t feel like you’re just a small fish in a big.

Andy Flattery: Well, well said, I think that’s a great, great place to end. Well, that’s a, I think that’s a wrap. This is a, this has been a great episode of Catholic money mastermind. Thanks for joining us. And we’ll see you in a month. God bless.

Deb Meyer: Thanks.

Charlie Horonzy: Thank you.